A startup’s guide to labor laws and compliance for remote teams

Labor laws and regulations aren’t always the first things most people think about when discussing adopting a remote-working culture, but these are aspects that can make or break a business.

But in the increasingly global world we live in – coupled with the fact that remote employees can come from anywhere in the world – regulation can be daunting.

In this episode of A Startup’s Guide to Remote Talent, G-P’s Charles Ferguson talks to Raymond Ong, head of human resources at Singapore-headquartered parenting platform The Parentinc, about the importance of abiding by local regulations, how compliance can make companies an attractive employment prospect, and what business leaders should keep in mind to stay on the right side of labor laws.

Timecodes:

00:00 – Intro
01:00 – Introducing Raymond Ong, head of human resources of The Parentinc
01:53 – The Parentinc’s founding story
03:46 – The “wrong” approach to remote working
06:45 – Compliance is fundamental to doing business
09:57 – Compliance with regulations is an attractive quality in an employer
15:18 – The challenges of dealing with regulators in different markets
16:24 – Top tips for businesses dealing with labor laws and compliance
18:52 – Words of wisdom for aspiring HR workers
20:38 – The recap so far

Hosts:

• Charles Ferguson, Singapore-based general manager for G-P’s Asia-Pacific operations
• Nathaniel Fetalvero, managing editor of Tech in Asia Studios and host of the Startup Snapshot podcast

Featured Interviewee:

• Raymond Ong, head of human resources at Singapore-headquartered parenting platform The Parentinc

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A Startup’s Guide to Remote Talent is a podcast by Tech in Asia, produced in partnership with G-P. Visit G-P’s website to learn more about the increasingly remote working world and how your business can gain an edge in the talent economy.

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Transcript

Nathaniel Fetalvero:
Alright, Charles, so what do you have for me today?

Charles Ferguson:
Woah, no banter today, Nat? We’re just gonna dive right into it?

Nathaniel Fetalvero:
I’ll be honest, I’m having a tough time relating to labor laws and compliance.

Charles Ferguson:
I mean, it’s not the sexiest topic when it comes to remote work, but it’s super important. In fact, it’s something that could make or break a business in its market expansions.

Nathaniel Fetalvero:
Well, let’s get to it then.

Charles Ferguson:
We shall, but before that…

Hello, and welcome back to A Startup’s Guide to Remote Talent. My name’s Charles Ferguson, I’m the APAC general manager at G-P, and my co-host is Tech in Asia Studios managing editor Nathaniel Fetalvero.

In this podcast miniseries, Nat and I explore the new age of hiring and how businesses of today – and tomorrow – can navigate the talent economy of the future. And today, we’re going to talk about what companies with remote teams need to know about labor laws and compliance.

Nathaniel Fetalvero:
So who’s the expert you spoke to for today’s episode, Charles?

Charles Ferguson:
None other than Raymond Ong, head of human resources at Singapore-headquartered parenting platform The Parentinc.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
I’ve been in human resources for over 20 years.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
Right on.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
And the last seven years or so as part of senior management. And most of my career has been with finance.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
Interesting.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
But the last few years have been with a lot of startups. And the latest stint is with The Parentinc.

Nathaniel Fetalvero:
Oh, The Parentinc, I know them. I interviewed the company’s founder, Roshni Mahtani, on Startup Snapshot a couple of years ago.

Charles Ferguson:
Then you’ll be familiar with the next few minutes of dialogue, but for our listeners’ benefit, before we get into the discussion on labor laws and compliance, we first have to dive into the story of The Parentinc.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
The Parentinc started… it was founded in 2009 by our group CEO, Roshni Mahtani-Cheung.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
Yes.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
And she started it as a parent blog because back then, she needed information as regards to her own pregnancy and she couldn’t find any. So it was just strange that, during that time… I mean, you know, with the internet booming and everything, and all this information at your fingertips, you didn’t have information that can specifically help parents.

So Roshni started it, theAsianparent platform, and the focus was in Southeast Asia. So she grew the company, she established seven offices, in seven countries –

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
Right away, or was that a –

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
it was, of course, a process.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
Yeah.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
And what was interesting as well is the content. So she created local content in 11 different languages because, of course, the variety of cultures and languages in Southeast Asia alone, of course, is also daunting. So she managed to do that.

And then through the years, as the company grew from her to 30 to 100, and presently, just last April, we acquired Webtretho in Vietnam. And right now, that brings us to over 500 talented, strong employees in Southeast Asia.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
Good grief, wow, what a story, man, that’s amazing.

Charles Ferguson:
Then, when the pandemic hit in 2020, The Parentinc had to adapt, just like many other businesses out there. The difference was that the company was already kind of familiar with the concept of remote working. And on Raymond’s end, he also saw how some other companies were taking a bit of a wrong approach.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
So the challenge back then was, every company had to do remote work, whether they liked it or not.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
That’s right.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
And the difference now is, well, who was ready for it? And if you were somehow planting the seeds of it before that, then you would have had an advantage with regards to adapting to that new normal, right?

We were fortunate at The Parentinc that we were already planting seeds that were going to support remote work. Back then… and, of course, Charles, you know, you can share with me what your thoughts about remote work, management thought of remote work more like a reward.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
Yeah, I recall that.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
It’s like, well, if we had employees who’ve proven that they’re performers and that you can empower them and have them do their work on their own, then remote work was something to consider.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
Yes.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
Some companies, they were also moving towards that type of arrangement through hot desking. Of course, there’s pros and cons to hot desking. But back then, the thought about remote work is really more of a reward.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
It was a perk

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
It was a perk. All of a sudden, it was part of work. It was, you know –

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
It was work.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
It was work. So how do you adjust to that? With The Parentinc, we were lucky because seeds were planted, one of which was the OKR framework with objectives and key results. So that one was in place. We were already doing flexible work. And during that time, as well, we were digitally transforming our performance review and talent development.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
Very cool.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
There was no getting around technology. You had to be leveraging off of whatever technology that was available. It was also fortunate as well… something simple as assigning laptops.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
Yeah.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
So since our employees had laptops, then they didn’t necessarily have to go to the office because some people are assigned their desktops, and now you’re stuck.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
That’s right.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
Because how are you going to work? If you have to work on a desktop that’s at the office? So it helped us. It helped us adapt faster to those lockdowns, and helped us transition to remote work faster.

Nathaniel Fetalvero:
Right, so like Produgie in the previous episode, The Parentinc was an early adopter of the remote work culture.

Charles Ferguson:
That’s right. Now, I bring all of this up because that means The Parentinc has about a decade of experience with remote work, while Raymond on his own has over twice that experience. So, all told, when it comes to labor laws and compliance for businesses with remote employees, these guys are practically experts. In fact, to Raymond, compliance is just the fundamentals.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
I see compliance as governance.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
Yeah.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
And I see that as business fundamentals –

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
Yes.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
– that every organization, especially the ones that want to scale, have to have. Especially the ones that want to expand in different markets. That becomes very important.

So, when you’re looking at governance and you’re looking at compliance, of course, an important aspect of that is compliance to local regulations.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
Yes.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
And what was also something that helped us when we were expanding is establishing those local offices. Because if you have those local offices, then the employees that you hire in those countries are now covered by that locally registered entity.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
Yes.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
And therefore, you ensure a fundamental requirement which is the compliance of locally mandated regulations.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
Exactly correct.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
So we were fortunate with regards to having the ability to establish those offices. I mentioned the seven offices: Of course, there’s Singapore, which is the general headquarters. We also have one in Malaysia, in India, Thailand, the Philippines, and Vietnam. And…

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
Are you guys in Indonesia?

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
Yes. Thank you, yes, we’re in Indonesia.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
There you go. That’s a huge market for you guys.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
Yes, it is. Yes. So having those offices helps us a lot. What you want to be careful – not just on the local regulations – but what you also want to be careful about is tax obligations. And that helps us, having those offices, to be able to address that.

However, we understand that you can’t necessarily as well establish a local office in all the countries –

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
In every single country on the planet.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
– exactly, that you want to operate in. So that is something we’d like to of course, further explore down the line. But we’re very aware and, you know, very clear that in any country that we operate in, then of course, we need to be compliant to the local regulations of that country.

Nathaniel Fetalvero:
Right, so Raymond knows his stuff.

Charles Ferguson:
He sure does. And one thing he mentioned that stuck with me is how, beyond just being a fundamental part of running a business, compliance with regulations is also an attractive quality in an employer.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
The side that deals with the regulation and, I mean –

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
Yeah, payroll, benefits, administration, and all that.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
– it’s just part of doing business.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
Yeah.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
You want to be able to address it properly. You want to be able to also have that strong fundamental in place so that you can leverage off of it when you’re scaling.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
Yeah.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
Especially when you’re moving to a new market or a new country. And I totally get what you mean and how these things, unfortunately, whether we like it or not, do sound mundane and very administrative and the type of things that, especially a visionary leader, who’s already looking 10 years ahead, wouldn’t really have the patience to deal with these things.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
It’s true, right? I mean, that we have to call that out, right?

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
Yes. Which is why it becomes important, of course, that you hire the right people to take care of those things for you.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
That’s right. Or maybe, if I’d be so bold, or partner with the right people?

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
Oh, yes, that’s a better word, actually, to partner with people that can help you on that.

And it just goes back to any time you want to expand, to scale – it has to align with not just the company’s mission or vision, but it also has to align to your culture, to your performance standard.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
Absolutely.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
And, of course, long-term business goals. And if those things are clearer to you, then it makes it easier to create the structures to be able to scale that approach. When you set about the culture and finding that compliance to find and partner with similar-minded individuals, it still goes back to those mundane tasks of putting the structure together.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
Yes.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
Regarding having an end-to-end recruitment process that not only helps you find these people, but are efficient and sustainable and scalable, connecting to your onboarding where, when that person comes in, you want to be able to start off on the right foot.

I don’t want to fall into too much HR jargon. But now you’re looking at the whole employee journey.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
That’s right

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
Which starts at the first point of contact, a potential colleague and partner, and of course, ends with the off-boarding because, especially nowadays… in the old days, people would have just one job throughout their whole life.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
Employment for life, man. That was the gig

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
Yeah. But that was so, so far away. I mean, you’re probably going to be working for three or four companies in your career, which means that shift had to happen wherein you can’t expect people to work with you for the rest of their life, right? Which means you have to factor in that eventually that person is going to leave you. And you want to be able to complete the end-to-end employee journey in a way that, of course…. you may have heard, HR professionals like to call it EX, employee experience, they’d like to, you know, have it at its most positive level.

My opinion is, at the very least, if we can make that end-to-end employee journey professional. That we have professionally interacted with someone else and given them the courtesy as professionals, as adults, then I believe that we have already achieved our mission.

It’s a small world, you never know if you will cross paths again.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
Exactly right.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
You never know if that person is going to work for you again. It would be great, actually, if they come back. So you want to be able to create that environment where that is possible. The common mistake that most people do is they burn bridges. That’s not thinking of it long-term.

Nathaniel Fetalvero:
Right, and that seems to go beyond just labor laws and compliance, but into – again – a company’s values and culture.

Charles Ferguson:
Yeah, you’re right. And on the other end of things, compliance really helps with keeping companies and their founders out of trouble. The problem is there’s just so many different regulations to abide by when you’re a business with a global or regional presence.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
Coming from the finance industry, Charles, there’s a lot of things that don’t surprise me. What I mean by that is with regards to dealing with regulators.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
Yeah, man, I can imagine.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
So you just have to come in –

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
Eyes wide open, right?

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
Yeah. With eyes wide open. Well, you know, what’s going on in a particular country? It was always unique to see the differences. At the same time, there’s also you know, I mean, like, for example, every labor law in every country is predicated on the same fundamentals – due process, fair treatment of employees – so that unites all the other countries.

Nathaniel Fetalvero:
I’ll be real with you, Charles, my tiny brain is feeling very overwhelmed just imagining the amount of things I’d have to deal with if I were ever in Raymond’s position.

Charles Ferguson:
Haha well, don’t worry. Raymond shared a few tips with me for you and everyone else listening in.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
The tips that I can share, which to me are important, but I have to warn you, Charles, and also warn the listeners as well. They’re not sexy.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
No, no, we’ve already covered that, right? They’re not sexy, but they sure are important.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
And some people will say, “Well, you know, that’s common sense.” But I just have to be able to reiterate that, when you’re expanding to a new market, when you’re leveraging off of remote work, when you’re looking at expanding your workforce in different markets, you do have to know your business model, especially the strengths of your business model. That’s one.

The second is you also need to know the roles in your business model, the deliverables of your business model, especially the critical ones.

Two more that I can share: One is you want to be able to align. It comes back to what we discussed earlier, where, yes, I’m moving to a new market, but it still has to align to my company’s mission, vision, culture, long-term business goals.

But if there’s one thing also that maybe is something that people haven’t been harping on a lot is you do need to leverage off of two important things: one is your business fundamentals – and that’s, you know, what we were talking about the governance and the compliance and all the other things that make up those fundamentals – and technology. You do need to be able to leverage off of technology, especially when you’re doing remote work.

If we didn’t digitally transform how we do our performance reviews, it would be very, very difficult to manually figure out how work is being done in the organization, especially in offices that are outside Singapore.

Nathaniel Fetalvero:
OK, that does help make it a lot simpler.

Charles Ferguson:
Exactly. And just in case any listeners out there were inspired by Raymond’s sharing so far and want to venture into the HR profession, we ended our conversation on a note that I think could help you take that leap.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
Just to add to what you said, Charles, about it may not sound sexy, but it is exciting, depending on how you look at it. Well, I just want to be able to remind colleagues and stakeholders and, you know, our listeners that you can’t get around the work.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
Yeah.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
You just can’t get around it.

Charles Ferguson (Recorded Interview):
That’s right. Sweeter after difficulty.

Raymond Ong (Recorded Interview):
Yes. The word I’d like to use is earn – that happens with experience. What I mean by that is going through difficult complex situations makes you earn that experience. And the skills that you learn is something that you earned. And then therefore, whatever happens from now to the future, it sticks with you and no one can take it away from you.

But the thing is, it’s not just going to be handed to you, you have to earn it. And part of earning it is going through what people may think as boring and mundane. Unfortunately, and this is where, you know, the bad news comes in, you can’t get around it.

But the good news is, when you do, then you’ve earned a real skill, real experience that you can leverage off for the rest of your career.

Nathaniel Fetalvero:
Nice note to end on.

Charles Ferguson:
It really is.

Nathaniel Fetalvero:
So if I can sum it all up, identify your business model and strengths, be clear on local regulations, and I guess just hire someone like Raymond to help you figure it all out.

Charles Ferguson:
Well, you could also just get in touch with us here at G-P, where we can wade through all the regulatory muck for you.

Nathaniel Fetalvero:
Of course.

Charles Ferguson:
Anyway, Nat, that brings us to the end of this series. To everyone who stuck around since episode one, thanks for listening to A Startup’s Guide to Remote Talent, a Tech in Asia podcast, produced in partnership with G-P. If you haven’t caught the other episodes, check them out – Nat and I touched on everything else you need to know about the future of the remote talent economy with a few special guests. Lastly, if you’re on an app that lets you, go ahead and give us five stars and a review. It really helps us out.

Nathaniel Fetalvero:
Speaking of special guests, we’ve got to give special thanks to The Parentinc team and Raymond Ong for his expert knowledge and the comprehensive manner in which he shared it with us on this episode. We’ll put links to his LinkedIn profile in the show notes if you want to get in touch with him.

Charles Ferguson:
That’s right. And if you’re a business owner or business leader and you need or want some assistance in figuring out your remote talent strategies, visit G-P’s website at g-p.com and we’ll be sure to help you out. I’ve been Charles.

Nathaniel Fetalvero:
And I’m Nat. Thanks for tuning in.